I always knew there was a problem with people being able to access the legal system without assistance of an Atty. However it was not until it happened to me that I realized the extent of the problem. The shocking part for me was that I have legal training. I learned from my ordeal that I have more knowledge than some clerks at the courthouse. I live in Jacksonville Florida the site of a new three hundred fifty million dollar courthouse. This courthouse underwent its own trials and tribulations from being over budget and plagued with design problems. For $350,000,000 we have a courthouse that is not 100% compliant with the Americans Disability Act and whose opening was delayed because the building could not pass fire inspection.
After filing my divorce petition on July 26, 2012, I realized that the problems are deeper and affect a far greater number of people than those touched by design or by ADA non compliance. If you are the person that does not have the money to hire an Atty. then you are, in essence, locked out of the courthouse. When I filed my paperwork it was complete and correct. Included in the paperwork I filed an Emergency Motion for Temporary Needs. This means that I was asking the court to give me a hearing as soon as possible to establish child support and other needs so that I can continue to support my children. After going through the proper procedure of serving the paperwork I called the courthouse to ask for a hearing date. I left countless messages for my case manager which went unanswered and unreturned. After two weeks of frustration, I decided to call until I received a response. When I finally got a return call I was met with resistance and immediately asked, “Are you an attorney?” to which I replied, no do have to be? I informed the clerk that I was a pro-se litigant and wanted to set it for a hearing. I knew to do this because of my experience working in several law offices. The response, “you can’t do that.” My mind felt like it was about to explode and I quickly responded with “what do you mean I can’t do that?” the clerk informed me that because I represented myself they had to send a note up to the judge to ask what they wanted to do. To me it was another delay in a process that had already taken far too long.
I quickly grew into a new understanding. It was quite shocking to realize that regular citizens do not have the same access to the legal system as their attorney represented counterparts. I thought to myself if this is happening to me, how many other people are facing the same challenges? I decided to write the chief judge and let him know of the challenges I have been facing. It turns out that he forwarded my E - mail to another judge who instructed the family law intake staff to set it for hearing. Procedure at this point would state that they would call me and conference in my husband’s attorney and confirm a date with us. However, because I was not represented they never called me. They called my husband’s, counter attorney and gave him a date. How did I find out? My soon to be ex husband told my daughter that we had a hearing date. I had completely been left out of the process. It was my motion. I should have been notified first. I would have settled for being included in the process. The day after finding out that a hearing had been set I received a call from the court eager to inform me that I had a hearing set. As they started to fumble over their words, I stopped them. I said let’s cut to the chase. You are calling to tell me that I have a hearing. They were surprised that I knew. They asked how I knew. I told them how I found out and that I was not pleased with the process. I asked them why I was not called. They admitted that they made a mistake and should have called me but someone dropped the ball.
I cannot help but wonder about the average person. This process was difficult for me and I have knowledge to assist me. Not everyone has my knowledge -- they have to rely on the courts and their staff to help them. I’ve the impression that they don’t want to help. Their only words are “you need an attorney.” As the saga continues, I have still not gotten my hearing. The other side objected to the use of the magistrate. The case was referred back up to the circuit court judge.
I called September 12th 2012 and was told once again that I cannot set it for hearing through the judicial assistant. I laughed at their ignorant, comment and called anyway. The judicial assistant was less than helpful. She told me that because the other side objected, they had to be the ones to call set it for hearing. I knew this was incorrect because it was my motion. I argued and argued. Then I realized there was no point in talking to people that do not have the ability to give me a yes answer. I told her I was going to e-mail the chief judge. Literally 5 minutes went by when she called me to tell me that she made a mistake and I could indeed set it for hearing. You would think I would be happy but I’m not. The hearing is scheduled for December. It’s an emergency hearing and I have a December date. Not sure how this is considered an emergency. When I asked why so late I was told that the judge did not instruct her to set it as an emergency. I replied, can we ask her? So she stated, no I cannot advocate on your behalf. Advocate? Really? She said, you’ll need to file the appropriate paperwork. Isn’t that what an emergency motion is? I took the date and I am going to get it changed. Will update when I know more.
Showing posts with label ADA. Show all posts
Showing posts with label ADA. Show all posts
Thursday, September 13, 2012
Tuesday, August 28, 2012
When will we say enough?
At what point do we say – enough? I often talk to legal document preparers throughout Florida and hear all manner of stories about their customers' difficulties accomplishing legal tasks through our court system. We use the term - legal access – and there are many facets and meanings to that term. Besides talking to many legal document preparers around the state, I also regularly talk to Florida pro se litigants.
Legal access can literally mean being able to enter and get around inside a courthouse. Sharon Hoffmeyer, a former member of the Florida Association of Legal Document Preparers, appeared on Jacksonville's Channel 4 News with camera man in tow, to show just how difficult legal access can be for someone with disabilities. For Jacksonville politicians, the entire story of the 350 million dollar Duval County Courthouse is a sore point – the fact that it went so far over budget, the fact that the transition into the new building was chaotic, and add the fact that the best laid plans of disability access consultants were ignored.
Ms. Hoffmeyer and I discussed the lack of ADA compliance in the Jacksonville courthouse, and her difficulty in accessing the legal system in general. We also spoke about the fact that the difficulty in accessing the legal system is a much larger problem, than access for the disabled. Ms. Hoffmeyer is in the process of pursuing a simple legal matter as a pro se litigant; and she is an experienced paralegal having worked for attorneys for much of her working life. She was trying to set a hearing on a motion that she had filed. At every turn, however, the clerks of court told her that she needed an attorney to set a motion hearing. Ridiculous. It was her motion, she had written if for herself, filed it herself, but continually hit barriers when simply trying to set a hearing on that motion.
As a legal document preparer, I find I often must inoculate my customers against the unhelpful attitudes of the clerks of court. Not all the clerks. Some of them are absolutely wonderfully helpful. And they are most appreciated. Recently one of my customers was struggling to navigate the self-help computers at the clerk's office in Sarasota. All she wanted was a copy of a court order. After about 45 minutes one of the clerks came out from behind the counter, helped my customer, and in 30 seconds or less the order was printing. My grateful customer then left the courthouse, went to Publix, bought flowers, and took them to the clerk. Help is appreciated.
On the other hand, most of the stories go the other way. We know that the clerks are told they are not allowed to answer legal questions. And fair enough. We (legal document preparers) don't answer legal questions either. But, as expensive as filing fees are, you would think that consumers could get simple answers to simple questions. Countless times pro se litigants are frustrated by the entire process. Many give up. Some educate themselves online or go to the law library for information. Certain circuits have an on site attorney service, charged at a dollar a minute. Some courthouses have Pro Se Help Desks where pro se litigants can ask questions about documents and procedure. The Pro Se Help Desks are sometimes helpful and sometimes not.
In Miami-Dade family law pro se litigants are required to attend an appointment with a clerk at the Pro Se Help Desk before filing their documents. The appointment is supposedly to make sure that all of the documents are in order. The fact, however, is that the purpose of the meeting is for the clerk to make sure that the pro se litigant is using the Miami-Dade local family law forms. Many circuits have local forms. But only Miami-Dade not only requires pro se litigants to use their local family law forms, but also requires that pro se litigants purchase those forms from the Miami-Dade courthouse. Many circuits sell form packets, that include local and forms used statewide – Supreme Court approved forms. The Supreme Court approved forms in the packets are available as free downloads on the Florida Supreme Court's website, www.flcourts.org. Most of the form packets, in most of the circuits cost around $20. But only Miami-Dade charges around $70. for their form packets – and requires that pro se litigants purchase their forms from them. Forms for divorce, child custody, modifications, step-parent adoption, paternity, disestablishment of paternity, and on and on. All forms, available for free on the Florida Supreme Court's website – cost Miami-Dade litigants. I believe it is unfair, and Miami-Dade residents don't know they are being taken advantage of. They are being singled out to pay more for family law forms than any other pro se litigants in the state.
Barriers come in many forms.
Legal access can literally mean being able to enter and get around inside a courthouse. Sharon Hoffmeyer, a former member of the Florida Association of Legal Document Preparers, appeared on Jacksonville's Channel 4 News with camera man in tow, to show just how difficult legal access can be for someone with disabilities. For Jacksonville politicians, the entire story of the 350 million dollar Duval County Courthouse is a sore point – the fact that it went so far over budget, the fact that the transition into the new building was chaotic, and add the fact that the best laid plans of disability access consultants were ignored.
Ms. Hoffmeyer and I discussed the lack of ADA compliance in the Jacksonville courthouse, and her difficulty in accessing the legal system in general. We also spoke about the fact that the difficulty in accessing the legal system is a much larger problem, than access for the disabled. Ms. Hoffmeyer is in the process of pursuing a simple legal matter as a pro se litigant; and she is an experienced paralegal having worked for attorneys for much of her working life. She was trying to set a hearing on a motion that she had filed. At every turn, however, the clerks of court told her that she needed an attorney to set a motion hearing. Ridiculous. It was her motion, she had written if for herself, filed it herself, but continually hit barriers when simply trying to set a hearing on that motion.
As a legal document preparer, I find I often must inoculate my customers against the unhelpful attitudes of the clerks of court. Not all the clerks. Some of them are absolutely wonderfully helpful. And they are most appreciated. Recently one of my customers was struggling to navigate the self-help computers at the clerk's office in Sarasota. All she wanted was a copy of a court order. After about 45 minutes one of the clerks came out from behind the counter, helped my customer, and in 30 seconds or less the order was printing. My grateful customer then left the courthouse, went to Publix, bought flowers, and took them to the clerk. Help is appreciated.
On the other hand, most of the stories go the other way. We know that the clerks are told they are not allowed to answer legal questions. And fair enough. We (legal document preparers) don't answer legal questions either. But, as expensive as filing fees are, you would think that consumers could get simple answers to simple questions. Countless times pro se litigants are frustrated by the entire process. Many give up. Some educate themselves online or go to the law library for information. Certain circuits have an on site attorney service, charged at a dollar a minute. Some courthouses have Pro Se Help Desks where pro se litigants can ask questions about documents and procedure. The Pro Se Help Desks are sometimes helpful and sometimes not.
In Miami-Dade family law pro se litigants are required to attend an appointment with a clerk at the Pro Se Help Desk before filing their documents. The appointment is supposedly to make sure that all of the documents are in order. The fact, however, is that the purpose of the meeting is for the clerk to make sure that the pro se litigant is using the Miami-Dade local family law forms. Many circuits have local forms. But only Miami-Dade not only requires pro se litigants to use their local family law forms, but also requires that pro se litigants purchase those forms from the Miami-Dade courthouse. Many circuits sell form packets, that include local and forms used statewide – Supreme Court approved forms. The Supreme Court approved forms in the packets are available as free downloads on the Florida Supreme Court's website, www.flcourts.org. Most of the form packets, in most of the circuits cost around $20. But only Miami-Dade charges around $70. for their form packets – and requires that pro se litigants purchase their forms from them. Forms for divorce, child custody, modifications, step-parent adoption, paternity, disestablishment of paternity, and on and on. All forms, available for free on the Florida Supreme Court's website – cost Miami-Dade litigants. I believe it is unfair, and Miami-Dade residents don't know they are being taken advantage of. They are being singled out to pay more for family law forms than any other pro se litigants in the state.
Barriers come in many forms.
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